I've seen REI selling "Snow anchors" for staking tents in deep snow. While different versions of this tent have probably been around for thousands of years, Black Diamond was one of the first (early 1990s?) Usually the best option is a single wall tent. Actually lemme not write this out, i'll snap a photo of an old paper I have detailing some mids in that category. Honestly, I don't know if you actually gain strength from going to the Hyperlight. Besides being lighter weight, DCF shelters are usually seam-taped, so you dont have to seam seal them.
I understand that if you have pickets, flukes, ice axes, skis, snow stakes, etc, that those will work just fine, especially when you're pitching under duress in a screaming gale, but if you've got the luxury of time and reasonably calm conditions to pitch your shelter, these things are quite adequate. I used McKinley tents in scouts and later for two other outdoors schools and none came with corner poles. This gives a backrest and added height so you can stand up inside. I'm be taking my mid above the treeline, I'll see how it holds up. Both materials are likely to have a similar lifespan, although many people prefer using Silnylon over DCF in winter because snow slides off its surface more easily. 99% of the time the pole is up, but that 1% of the time, when you're literally concerned about getting blown away, and just want to survive the night, you take down the pole. The big problem with mids - two or one pole - is they do take up a lot of floor space. The DCF likely would take more extreme loads than a woven shelter, but also likely has a shorter lifespan as it ultimate succumbs to more mundane stresses like torsion/peeling/delamination. Just rambling now. New Customer Discount. While a DCF shelter will be lighter weight (the larger the shelters, the bigger the weight difference) than one made with silnylon, it will be bulkier to pack. I have an ultamid 4 and really enjoy it.
In my opinion, a pyramid is the best snow tent. I'd get a Silvertip but at 6'2" and a stomach sleeper I worry about space for two and needing to sleep on the diagonal with an offset pole to fit. OSPREY-PACKS: Backpacking Pack Sale! An alternate to an igloo. If this bothers you, look for pyramids with a higher peak height and steeper sidewalls. Like what you see here? to make a commercial model, which I think was the Megamid. Another interesting pyramid tent hybrid is the Six Moons Gatewood cape. The Front Range for your extreme case, and something like the Seek Outside Silex (17 oz, $195) or a MLD SoloMid/DuoMid for the warmer months. Many pyramid tarp manufacturers offer their shelters in several fabric options, including Dyneema DCF and silnylon. A Membership is required to post in the forums. That catches less wind, but to do that, you have to have a center pole that can be reduced to two-thirds length. Trying to dig down to ground level can be problematic. Watch the Tarptent Dipole Review Premiere on YouTube: Backpacking Light community posts are moderated and here to foster helpful and positive discussions about lightweight backpacking. Yes, finding a stick might be difficult. https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Sand-Shawn-Forry/dp/B07PNKKMPS. No duplication of photos, maps, or text without permission. The traditional way to set them up used a cord around the circumference that all the other tie outs were pre tied to. Here are some hard-earned insights into how to use them and what to look for when purchasing one. Compare it to the MLD supermid for example. Pricey but maybe worth it if you use it a lot. The expertise and photos here (shared with permission) come from Graybird Guiding, a Seattle based guide company that not only leads some sweet ski trips, but also has an Instagram full of solid advice. I appreciate this. We put rocks around the edges so that wind could not get underneath very well. MLD said that their silnylon which is 20 and 30D will last twice as long as their DCF shelters. Pyramid tarps are a popular ultralight backpacking shelter option because theyre relatively lightweight and wind-resistant. pyramid in high wind you want guylines on each side, like the McKinley tent, the McKinley tent has those four short poles on the corners. Connect with them at their website and on Instagram. Unfortunately I don't get to use my pyramid tent as much as I would like because most people I hike with prefer a floor. Next, use your ski as a guide / straight edge to start digging. Let's learn from some expert backcountry ski guides who have hundreds of combined nights sleeping with this set up. about 4 pages down, pyramid climbing McKinley. Check for the latest price at: Mountain Laurel Designs, Check for the latest price at: Six Moon Designs, Check for the latest price at: Zpacks.com, Check for the latest price at: Hyperlite Mountain Gear, Check for the latest price at: Locus Gear, Check for the latest price at: Seek Outside, Check for the latest price at: MSR | OutdoorPlay, Check for the latest price at Black Diamond. How much wind can a pyramid take? I do have an HMG backpack which I really enjoyed and the stitching around eventually pulled through the material. Connect with us on Face-gram, Insta-book and the Tube via the icons below. I wouldnt buy the cuben fiber for longevity or strength. There might be sticks that dropped off trees and are visible, but they would likely be below treeline, not above treeline. Nice to see Black Diamond moving to polyester. I suppose 3 tents makes sense but then I feel like I'm just chasing gear purchases. You can get big discounts if your an AAC member on BA gear (or if you have a friend who is), If you want one shelter to do it all SlingFin would be a great option, Haha idk about that but Im sure more sane people would consider it suspect that my gear closet is worth more than my car shield 3 looks interesting, thats the lightest tent Ive seen in that style. EDIT: Looks like their new shelters are announced - they have pre orders up - and damn these do not dissapoint! Plus, check out the backrest which comes from digging into a slope, clever! DCF is not more durable than silnylon or silpoly. Pyramid tarps and tents have a fairly large footprint, which can make it difficult to pitch in heavily forested terrain where you need to wedge them between trees. Small stuff sacks for deadmen are very strong. It's light and so damn tough. Login or become a member to post in the member forums! The 0.75 DCF could easily take many times more weigh in snow than any trekking pole could ever handle without collapsing. On-route it has to large of a profile and it is probably way more of a hassle then I would want to deal with. You will note the pair that just did the PCT in winter used a small MLD pyramid. 3) Stomp out pad with your skis. For the original OP - I'd also recommend you checkout Big Agnes or Rabs mountaineering domes (Nemo Tenshi maybe too) - I'm using one regularly (now discontinued but similar) and they are damn hard to beat for a true fast and light alpine tent. And for extra ventillation two tunnel vents positioned partway up the side walls opposite the roof vents for when you seal the bottom with snow. We used it on a high alpine bench (~10,000ft), and it held up well in the winds. Copyright 2007-2022, SectionHiker.com and Fells Press LLC. These seem to be similar price ranges i just dont see myself getting a burly double wall tent - Id rather rent it. Pyramid tents are usually just pyramid tarps with an optional add-on inner tent that has a floor and mesh netting to protect occupants from ground moisture, insects, and creepy crawlies. Any suggestions on a tunnel tent? Note that many of the pyramids not the same shape. * The design is very dependent on *all* the stakes holding all of them. It's the only shelter design that will be storm-worthy enough for your extreme use case while being light enough for your minimal use case. Would make me lean hard towards a strong mid as the second option. Or do you stick with traditional stakes and just try to dig it down to ground or ice? I plan on stretching its use as a four season tent in the snow by digging it out/building walls and guying it out well. Get Backpacking Light news, updates, gear info, skills, and commentary delivered into your inbox 1-2x/week. The eVent walls work better than you think and if you get one with a tunnel vent you can also cross ventillate very well. Thanks for joining the AlpineSavvy mailing list. The silnylon held up to the high winds we encountered that night just fine. Without them, you really can't use the outer 1 foot or so all the way around, but the poles weigh more, so maybe you're better off just making the floor a little bigger. The pyraomm is silpoly and the wall angles make sense. For what it's worth, Max Neale strongly advocates for this tent in his 4-season Alaska adventures, including Denali. The pole is usually placed inside the peak in the center of the pyramid, although it can also be slanted with the base off-center to provide more interior room. I just dont see myself using it for weekend ski trips or anything other than a high camp on a committed climb. I used a MYOG 99 pyramid in the Crazies in Montana this past summer. Then put up the pole and the other guy outs. The first winter thru of the PCT was done with an MLD MID. On the other hand I feel like the ultamid will get used all the time afterwards Obviously the latter is cuben fiber and a large investment that will last forever, but my question is the increased strength worth the cost or will the Silnylon tarp be suffiecient. My options are the MSR Front Range 4 (400$) and the Hyperlite Ultamid 4 (1100$). Internal condensation is best addressed by encouraging plenty of airflow through a pyramid, by keeping the front door open or pitching them so plenty of air can blow through, low down near the ground. This is particularly advantageous in winter when insect protection is unnecessary. Good if the OP needs a big shelter for high winds. I think u/Melatoninpenguin and maybe u/bsarocker are using a Silvertip? Also take a good look at SlingFin shelters - they have some damn fine designs going on and I know they have some new stuff coming down the pipe that sounds really nice.
But I wonder if even a mid can properly cover the range, without being a little thin in the extreme or a little heavy in the minimum. Not having a center pole in the way is really nice! Would you trust your life with a pyramid over a single wall tent? It's survived 3 feet of snow dumping on me overnight, although you do have to dig it out. 5) Use your skis (or buried bags) to anchor the four corners. Here are the top 10 pyramid tarps that we recommend. All Rights Reserved. (This tent-http://www.oregonphotos.com/snow-camping.html#anchor165216). It's definitely overkill for 3 season use. In the wind, in the winter with gloves I would want a second person. It's nice. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. I have never used a pyramid tent before. TREAD LABS INSOLES: As good as custom orthotics at a fraction of the price. The benefit of a good single wall is the fact that when your cold and tired you can just get inside and easily set it up, then go outside stake it out and have a sturdy reliable shelter. The geometry of some pyramids will allow this, and others won't. Your email address will not be published. I combine it with a Tyvek groundsheet to provide some sort of dryness. I'm only 5'8" but it feels like I'm in a damn palace. I typically use skis on all four corners. I have a possible Denali/Forraker trip coming in the spring and might try to use this as a shelter on that depending on how testing through the winter goes (I realize many will say this is a bad idea, and I plan on thoroughly testing in bad weather before taking on a trip - if it doesnt Ill borrow a tent and use this as a cook tent). I have no Denali opinions, but I have never hesitated to take it out in any weather. The best way to reduce or eliminate any internal condensation is to maintain as much airflow as possible. Some models can get pretty light but not as light as a pyramid.
The peak itself is usually reinforced so the center pole doesnt puncture it. You should get a confirmation email soon; please click it to be added. I give up on a trip long before the tent does. GOSSAMER-GEAR: Take 15% Off all Gossamer Gear Backpacks, Tents, Tarps, Trekking Poles and Accessories with Coupon Code "SECTIONHIKER22". New Live Webinar - Introduction to Map & Compass - July 2 @ 9 AM US MDT. Also, if you are looking a for MID style tent that is storm worthy, MLD should be on your list. Pyramid tarps are called monopole shelters because they only require one pole to set up. This feature requires an active Backpacking Light Membership. Hell if you wanted to you could even have a totally integrated floor sewn to the top like a Dome mountaineering tent - just gotta make sure the ventillation options are adequate. The shape is a bit harder to pitch than a 4 sided mid but that also means it has smaller individual panels for snow to deflect inwards so you lose less space and gain strength (and wind performance). If the snow is deep enough, you can bury the bottom edge of the tent in the snow, and the wind won't get under the edge and into the tent. A sleeping bag size one, snow filled and clove hitched around the center buried in snow resisted pullout from six men pulling downhill on a climbing rope in one test. Most pyramid tents and tarps have a single front door, which can be problematic depending on its position and the number of people sharing the shelter. Simply flatten the tent and put a few snow blocks in the middle to keep it from blowing away when you're gone. Tired of messing with gimicky UL tents and would like a 2 shelter setup of flat tarp and mid/mid-ish. With your ski poles making an A-frame as shown here, you of course need to remove them the next day when you go skiing. It's also survived 30 mph sustained winds, although you obviously have to pitch it carefully. Works great as a cook tarp too where you can hangout with a bunch of people on group trips. But if one was to dig down in the mid, and take down the pole, and do your best to tie up the flapping material, you'd get a way way better wind profile. Let me get one misconception out of the way. And if you are digging down at all in the snow below it then it's even bigger. I have the Ultamid 2 as my winter tent. I'm not buying that. No, not without giving up a lot of comfort and performance. I'm thinking the big yellow plastic stakes might work better than my little titaniums for not ripping through the ice? Makes putting on your boots a bit easier. If $1100 is in your budget, maybe look at getting two sil nylon shelters. I have been looking for some used integral designs and black diamond tents for sale. Lots of pyramid tents have a pretty high profile, so high wind can really tear those apart. You're definitely right to be looking at mids. Just don't expect to ride out storms or deal with heavy snow dumps (and to be fair you're asking about mids that could compete with Hilleberg essentially as a one and done, do it all, long term cost - so maybe bringing up those tent's isn't worth it?). Think about geometry and tie out options - wall angle should be a leading concern. A small and tangential point - I remember both the Eolus and Silex coming in at 3-5 ounces overweight after seam sealing based on user reports on Rokslide. * You can get a bit of condensation in them as a top vent is tricky to do. Honestly an incredible tent. Despite their differences, all pyramid shelters share a few common properties. They are exceptionally wind and weather resistant, they have a single peak, and solid walls. Our premium articles include in depth journalism and insights from the Backpacking Light editorial team. (Check out their hashtag #sknowmore for specific backcountry ski tips.). Your email address will not be published. Note the skirt around the bottom edge; you can stack snow blocks on this to seal up the tent. Lots of dry snow but very hard winds during the winter. http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews/Brooks-Range-Invasion. Join us and ask yourself the question: Do I really need that? For DCF of it's weight it seems well made but I just can't see it lasting as long as heavier nylon: time will tell. r/Ultralight is the largest online Ultralight Backcountry Backpacking community! a four sided pyramid is pretty simple if you stake out the four corners first. I think the reason to go dcf is weight, and it's properties while wet (doesn't get water loaded, seep or stretch). Sleeps two, weighs a hair over 1 pound. Sleeps four people, weighs 1650 g (3 lb 10 oz). The UltaMid 4 looks a bit larger and heavier. The advantage, of course, is the weight savings from dual use (no need for a rain parka). The floor dimensions are huge. Plus I can use it in the summer instead of my tarp if I want. If you rig it as shown below with ski poles, there's no center pole, which saves some weight and gives you even more space inside. Speaking of melting water, no need to go outside to get snow; just grab a handful and put it in your stove, all from the comfort of your sleeping bag. Here's one of the newer models, the Mega Snow 4P, specifically designed for snow camping. The Rab Latok Mountain 2/3 would be a good alternative. When evaluating multi-person pyramids, try to find ones that let you orient your head facing the front wall so you and your partner(s) have equal access to the door, rather than pyramids where youre lying perpendicular to the door. I would actually say it's more like a 3-4 person shelter compared to the sizing people are used to here. Required fields are marked *. Floorless, so no more sleeping in a puddle of accumulated meltwater. Snow doesn't shed off DCF that well. You certainly lose weight, but the stretch of the silnylon can actually help in some cases. Also packs smaller which is nice. Most ultralight backpacking pyramids can be set up using a trekking pole(s), but you can usually obtain and carry a separate tent pole if you dont use them. No it's not that light, but it goes up anywhere in any conditions and one person can pitch it easily. It's quite nice to have a floorless tent so water doesn't really pool at the bottom, it just freezes. Check those wall angles (and note peak height as it informs angle) on the HMG 4. I've used the Megalight for over 10 years in the winter. Pyramid style, floorless tents have some advantages over standard floored tents when it comes to snow camping and multi day ski trips. Why? Lighter weight with larger floor area and more interior space. X-Mid 2P would accommodate 4 in fly only mode (pic here) about as well as the MSR Front Range. I will be using it between 10,000 to 14,000 feet in the Sierra Nevada's here in Spain. If your trekking pole is not long enough, you can lash it to a second trekking pole with a Voile ski strap to create a longer pole or extend it with a pole jack, which is essentially atent pole repair sleeve that fits over your trekking pole tip to make it longer. Couple of thoughts. Me, for light-weight I would only use a double-skin tunnel tent at that altitude. The vent is nice and the mid panel tieouts add a lot of interior room. I trust Ron to have bias orientation figured out. And then I would use 4 poles to pitch it in a double A frame (assuming two people) with something like an extended length DPTE.
https://imgur.com/gallery/P7ppZKx (has some bad assumptions, is geared to two people sleeping next to each other - just look at the numerical values and not the commentary). You would probably want to supplement it with a more typical 3-season UL piece at some point, however. A pole is often included with the shelter or available as an option. Pyramid tents and tarps are prone to internal condensation just like any other single or double-walled tent and shelter. In that same ballpark is the Supermid. In the wind, in the winter with gloves I would want a second person. Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light! Personally my ideal shelter for winter use would be the Xmid / SS2 / Silex approx layout but paired with burlier fabric, zippers, and real snow valences. How about set up? It has all of the needed guy lines and center point point so that improvising is not needed. The way I figure it is, my mid and my 4 season tunnel are in a similar magnitude regarding wind profile and material strengths. Here is what they used in McKinley in the 70s. The Silvertip is your base camp and group shelter and can later be your cook tent. At these price points, the front range would allow me to budget for a single wall tent expedition tent with it, while the hyperlite I would hope to use more in place of a single wall. Timewise, this typically takes two people about an hour, and a bit faster after you've done it a few times. But with HMGs build process I probably wouldn't be concerned about it. A heavy geodesic dome works, but is heavy. Both are by Seek Outside. Setting up a pyramid tent by yourself is never easy. The idea seemed to be that you burry bags full of rocks in the snow rather than staking. 4) Optional: Dig a footwell for even more interior space. While not an issue for solo use, youre probably going to wake up a partner if you have to get out of a multi-person pyramid at night.
5) Rig an A-frame with four ski poles and Voile straps for better stability and more room. This could potentially be a great choice but I simply can't find the info online and haven't taken the time to email them. This can reduce the amount of useable space you have inside, but is unlikely to have a serious functional impact. This makes them a good choice for camping in exposed terrain that doesnt have a lot of natural windbreaks like trees or vegetation, and for winter camping, where the steep sidewalls of a pyramid can help shed snow. When purchasing a pyramid, make sure to look for ones that have interior gear loops or attachment points so you can conveniently suspend accessories in the interior. It makes a lot of functional sense. Free Shipping and Returns. This can be addressed by getting a larger capacity pyramid that provides more living space, although it will be heavier to carry. On the plus side, many pyramids inner tents can be set up after the outer tarp when its raining, so they stay dry. The security of a pyramid tent in really high winds relies on having adequate snow cover Too much work to keep it from collapsing? The X-Mid 2P might work as a mid-inspired tent. Theyre also optional, so you can leave them at home when you want to save gear weight or bulk. For modern tunnel tents look at Stevenson Warmlite, Hilleberg, and the MSR dragontail. And the light models are extremely expensive. Home Forums Off Piste Mountaineering & Alpinism Pyramids above treeline in the winter? Anyways just thoughts. Another common alternative is to purchase a half-sized inner tent that only fills part of the pyramid to save weight so you can safely cook in the floorless half in bad weather. If the snow is deep, you won't find any sticks under the snow. If your platform is level, you won't slide. I have heard some conflicting information about pyramids. As shown in these photos, you're using your skis and poles as part of the tent structure. I dont really want a burly 8lb mountaineering tent that I will only use a couple times if I can manage to make something else work. Obviously the latter is cuben fiber and a large investment that will last forever, but my question is the increased strength worth the cost or will the Silnylon tarp be suffiecient.
Check out this short (2:40) video that shows how all this comes together. What are the downsides? Here's a photo sequence and pro tips from Graybird Guiding showing how to prepare your campsite and set up your tent. If you use an inner tent with a pyramid tarp, youve effectively turned it into a double-wall tent, with all of the advantages and disadvantages commonly associated with them. Pyramid tarps often called mids, short for pyramids, are available in multiple forms ranging from one-person ultralight monopole tarps to multi-person winter tipis, complete with inner tents, stove jacks, and wood stoves. ", While another type of tent might be warranted if you need a floor to keep out sand blowing, or other reasons etc. Not as good for snow loads. It is correct that one good UL solution is to tie off to a buried stick. You might want to include the Zpacks Altaplex tarp, which is the perfect size for a solo+ shelter and only weighs 7.6 ounces in 0.50 DCF and 9.5 ounces in 0.75 DCF. It took me a while to dig one up, but back when I did a little above-treeline camping (very little, actually, with my Bibler eldorado), I used these deadman stakes which were made from the venerable yellow plastic stakes with the heads and points cut off and were then drilled to make them lighter. Many of the manufacturers listed above sell half-mids inner tents that can be used for this purpose. they dug a hole in the snow for shelter, then had a pyramid above to cover it. Consider bringing longer, thicker, and heavier tent stakes when anchoring your shelter in windy terrain. You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Here's a fancier model from Hyperlight Mountain Gear that's made from Dyneema composite fabric. I bought my Silvertip for above treeline and also 4 season use though so it's less of an issue. Is that a common method? You talk seem to have a lot of ideas for winter tents, and honestly I think Im not as well versed as you. Harder to pitch in tightly forested areas or on little mountain ledges. Backpacking Light helps hikers and other backcountry enthusiasts overcome their barriers to living a life outside in Wild Places. Weve used pyramid tarps and tents quite extensively for backpacking in a variety of climates and terrain. Id be interested in what you would think is the most versatile 4 season shelter that you would trust in a committed high alpine situation lets assume its not a bivy ledge, so footprint is less of a concern. You can use all the floor area better. Without skins, point your skis downhill. And it's really not hard to pitch at all. I kind of already knew the answers but with about 1lb per person with a pyramid I would love to take it to the mountains. We try to post Tasty Tips daily! It's just lighter and stronger for the weight. Would have similar durability (both 20D) , better value ($300 vs $500), and no sag at a lighter weight (21 vs 26oz).
But they are heavy. I would expect better snow shedding due to steeper walls and more structure, and similar or greater living volume in a smaller footprint. Pyramid tents can be used above treeline, although you might want to modify the shape if you expect high wind. Can you set it up by yourself with heavy winds and gloves? Better climate control: Lift up the bottom a bit if you need some ventilation, or bunker down from a storm by putting snow blocks on the outside. Please be mindful of our values and boundaries and review our Community Guidelines prior to posting. If sleeping on the ground doesnt appeal to you or if you need insect protection, you can add an inner tent to a pyramid tarp to create a double-walled tent. The only limitation on a pyramid is that you need to make sure you have a relatively large space to pitch the tent. Or you can just use STICKS, the ultimate UL solution. They also work best on flat and even ground, unlike a flat tarp, where you can pitch one side considerably higher than the other and still get a viable shelter. 6) Once the tent is anchored, bury the edges with the snow blocks you made earlier. Sorry to thread highjack but just curious here. They couldn't. You can watch the documentary on Amazon. More complicated stake out geometry. It is super flexible and could cover the options you are considering. Big yellow plastic stakes work good in soft or medium snow, but if it gets too hard and icy, they are difficult to drive in (since they are plastic).